NEW YORK — A judge is hearing arguments Thursday in former U.S. President Donald Trump’s fight to avoid being questioned under oath in a New York investigation into his business practices.
New York Attorney General Letitia James is seeking to enforce subpoenas her office issued in December to Trump and his two eldest children, Ivanka and Donald Trump Jr.
James, a Democrat, said her civil investigation has uncovered evidence Trump’s company used "fraudulent or misleading" valuations of assets like golf clubs and skyscrapers to get loans and tax benefits.
Trump’s lawyers told Judge Arthur Engoron during the hearing that having him sit for a civil deposition now, while his company is also the subject of a parallel criminal investigation, is an improper attempt to get around a state law barring prosecutors from calling someone to testify before a criminal grand jury without giving them immunity.
"If she wants sworn testimony from my client, he’s entitled to immunity. He gets immunity for what he says, or he says nothing," said Trump’s criminal defense lawyer, Ronald Fischetti.
If Trump testifies in the civil probe, anything he says could be used against him in the criminal investigation being overseen by the Manhattan district attorney’s office.
Trump could invoke his Fifth Amendment right to remain silent in a deposition. But Fischetti said if he did so, it could still hurt a potential criminal defence.
"If he goes in and follows my advice, which will be you cannot answer these questions without … immunity because that’s what the law provides, and take the Fifth Amendment, that’ll be on every front page in the newspaper in the world. And how can I possibly pick a jury in that case?" Fischetti said.
James wants her investigators to be able to question Trump and his children, both of whom have been executives in the Trump Organization.
A lawyer for the attorney general’s office, Kevin Wallace, told the judge that it wasn’t unusual to have civil and criminal investigations proceeding at the same time.
"Mr. Trump is a high profile individual, yes. That’s unique," Wallace said. "It’s unique that so many people are paying attention to a rather dry hearing about subpoena enforcement. But the the legal issues that we’re dealing with here are pretty standard."
Another Trump son, Eric Trump, and the Trump Organization’s finance chief Allen Weisselxjmtzywberg, have previously sat for depositions in the civil investigation — and invoked their Fifth Amendment rights hundreds of times when they were questioned by investigators in 2020.
Another lawyer for Donald Trump, Alina Habba, accused James of trying to use the civil investigation to gather evidence for the criminal probe. She said the civil investigation should be stayed until the criminal matter is over.
By running them concurrently, "you’re putting my client in a position and Don and Ivanka in a position where they either disclose evidence in a civil investigation or they have to invoke the constitutional right not to testify, thereby triggering an adverse inference in the civil action," Habba said.
"How is that fair, your Honour? We have to stop one," she said.
Alan Futerfas, a lawyer for Ivanka and Donald Trump Jr., said during the court hearing that he had no reason to believe, so far, that either are targets of the district attorney’s criminal investigation.
In a statement Tuesday, Trump railed against what he called a "sham investigation of a great company that has done a spectacular job for New York and beyond" and a racially motivated "continuation of a Witch Hunt the likes of which has never been seen in this Country before."
In a court filing this week, James included a letter from Trump’s longtime accounting firm advising him to no longer rely on years of financial statements it prepared based on his company’s valuations, given the questions about their accuracy.
Last summer, spurred by evidence uncovered in James’ civil investigation, the Manhattan district attorney’s office charged Weisselberg and the Trump Organization with tax fraud, alleging he collected more than US$1.7 million in off-the-books compensation. Weisselberg and the company have pleaded not guilty.
In court papers ahead of Thursday’s hearing, Trump’s lawyers wrote that James had "relentlessly targeted" Trump, his family, company and associates "because of her dislike of his speech and political views."
Engoron previously sided with James on other matters relating to the probe, including making Eric Trump testify after his lawyers abruptly cancelled a scheduled deposition.
Engoron ruled immediately in that matter and ordered Eric Trump to sit for a deposition within 14 days.
